not to be mean but....

As I've been perusing the poems on here ive seen some very good writers and also some well not as experienced i guess ill say...thats fine im not saying im great i dont even like my own stuff half of the time...the thing that bothers me though is that i see a lot of high ratings based on sentimental subject matter when the poem itself is not always written so well....thats when i noticed under this websites "writing tips" the following:


"4. Avoid Sentimentality
Sentimentality is 'dominated by a blunt appeal to the emotions of pity and love...Popu-
lar subjects are puppies, grandparents, and young lovers"'(Minot 416). 'When readers have the feeling that emotions like rage or indignation have been pushed artificially for their own sake, they will not take the poem seriously' (132).

Minot says that the problem with sentimentality is that it detracts from the literary quality of your work (416). If your poetry is mushy or teary-eyed, your readers may openly rebel against your effort to invoke emotional response in them. If that happens, they will stop thinking about the issues you want to raise, and will instead spend their energy trying
to control their own gag reflex. "

i think also that when some people are reading these poems that are not that well written and giving them high ratings they should not do so just because they identify or feel that something is "deep." it also needs to be a good poem!

sorry if this was mean but just my opinion...i dont have to be taken seriously and im not tryna hurt anyones feelins...just puttin my opinion out there....

Re: not to be mean but....

I agree on loose sentimental commonality. I have read some outstanding-born poets on
this site . Love,passion,some get it right .Others,well-non of us have gone down in history yet!
I didn't this you were mean.

Re: not to be mean but....

Let the sentimental poets do their thing,
if you do not like their work, then, simply,
do not read it.

Their poetry is as valid as yours and mine.

Lets not be dictators. Dictators have closed minds.

Re: not to be mean but....

sentimentality, if not true to its definition, can sound desperate and naive. perhaps selfish. but then again, in a few hundred years, supposing anything is left, it will be nice to stumble upon even the worst of the many ways to say, I Loved You.

Re: not to be mean but....

Hehehe more into poetry than sentimentality. Well that's always depending on who you want to reach. I love my puppy and it's soft ears and the child whom I wiped away the tears Point is what part of the heart you want to reach using what tools appropriate for the job!

Re: not to be mean but....

Re: not to be mean but....

well i think i may have been misunderstood or misconveyed what i was trying to say...im saying dont rate ppl's poems just because you identify with them...rate them because they are a 8 calibre or 9 calibre poem...not because you love your puppy and they love their puppy...theres a lot of talent here on this site and i think the talent deserves to be recognized as talent above and beyond i love my dog he makes me glad, he comforts me when i am sad...i dunno maybe im just being a pretentious ass lol

Re: not to be mean but....

You may prefer imagist work. Read any E.L. Pound lately? Also, your observation might become the inspiration of a poem. You do not sound mean to me, maybe a little meme.

F.C. Bsoko

Re: not to be mean but....

To All This May Concern:
acjtb is correct (and not mean). I am seriously dedicated to make my living at being a creative writer. I have written two fiction books (sitting in a NY publishing house editor's office as I write this), and have a third in the works. I have written creatively for a very long time and I am sought out to judge writing competitions. I have come (thisclose) to selling 2 scripts to TV. That being said, the last is this - I am NOT perfect nor do I know everything about writing. But if you will indulge me, please let me give ALL writers the following advice (from my point of view) and you can take it or leave it.

1 DO NOT take criticism personally.

2 I do not know you, so I do not judge you as a person. The only thing I have to judge is what you present and how you present it. Always proofread before you hit that
"post" button.

3 A workman is only as good as his tools. As writers, our tools are a "pen" and language. We must respect the latter enough to use correctly since we want the reader to understand us. This means SPELLING, GRAMMAR, SYNTAX, and all the rules apply. Our poems are roadmaps for others and the last thing we want to do is confuse or distract the reader by misuse of basic writing rules. Do not forget how punctuation can affect meaning.

4 DO NOT take criticism personally.

5 Take a little time to learn the differences between what a"poem" is, what "free verse" is, and what "stream of consciousness" means. Not everything has to be written in iambic pentameter or have heroic couplets.

6 Everyone has their (not there) own voice and writes accordingly. But if you put it out there for others to read and rate, DO NOT take criticisim personally.

7 DO NOT fall in love with your work and think it is unique or perfect. There is no original theme out there that has not been written about. And our personal life experiences are not greater or lesser than anyone else's. They are not any more exhilarating or devastating than the next guy's. It is how we write about them that conveys our commonality with each other.

8 SUGGESTION: Once you think your work is complete, walk away from it for a
day or two. When you come back to it - let someone you know read it aloud, as you wrote it. Do you get the feel that you want a stranger to get when they read it?

9 SUGGESTION: When I have people in my writers groups read any of my work - I want them to be brutal and even nit-pick. It has made me a better writer. I NEVER take criticism personally because it is never directed at me personally. Writing is a craft, a skill, and we all should take every opportunity to hone those skills to make ourselves better.

10 I confess, I am a hit & run rater. I have very limited time, but I try to read at least 10-15 poems each time I visit the site. And I read each one a minimum of four times before I hit the feathers. The "writing judge" in me refuses to allow me to be swayed by subject matter, (I do not mind sentimentality if it doesn't sound intentionally manipulative), or my impression of what "I think" the writer must have experienced. I rate the poem as a finished creation, only. To be honest - I do not have time to detail my critique on every piece. Trying to be kind to those I feel may be just getting their feet wet in writing this medium, I have yet to score lower than a six - but I will tell you now, in my opinion, I have yet to see a 10.

11 Please, DO NOT take anyone's criticism personally. If anyone reading this does not wish me to rate their work - drop me a quick line. But there a couple of people I have promised to read and I will do it for them.

12 If YOU are one of those that rate poems only to hurt someone else - consider this - you are a small and petty person and there truly is no poetry in your soul.

Sorry if I have offended anyone - and I will offer any help to anyone who asks.

Last edited by FoF 03-22-2009 at 03:48:27 PM

Re: Re: not to be mean but....

Re: not to be mean but....

Really, I just hit the wrong button while trying to post. The smiley's were not intended. I would really appreciate your criticism.

Re: not to be mean but....

wOOt that was really really awesome advice FoF! Wish you the best of luck with your writing!

Re: not to be mean but....

I think you just need to judge others works on how it strikes you...personally, I look pretty evenly between grammar, subject matter and literary structure. However, judging is still purlely opinion and cannot truly be unbiased if only a little...therefore, i reiterate, just judge it on your own personal response.

p.s. I don't mind constructive criticism or even questions, I am always looking to improve my ramblings, and am willing to discuss them with anyone!

Re: not to be mean but....

I should have read this before starting another thread what is poetry.

I don't necessarily like Rod McKuen or Shel Silverstein as poetry, but I know that a lot of people do. Some poems seem overly insipid or angry.

Though i do think the "pure emotion" poems have a place.

I have read poems on this site, not liked them, then later thought about them and realized that they affected me...read them again and liked them.

Re: not to be mean but....

I like poems that are chewy. They have multiple levels and i get something new out of them after repeated readings. I was thinking. FoF commented about her reading a poem several times before rating it. I think that is necessary to get the nuances of a truly good poem.

the poetry that is elf absorbed cryin is hard for me to read sometimes. Rather than state the obvious, i like it when a poet hints at his intention. When he has several layers of intentions....my gosh it just gets better!

Re: not to be mean but....

I'm new to this site. I appriciate any and all comments people leave be they good or bad....The only thing that would bother me is indifference and if indifference is what my writting inspires, then that indifference would inspire me to refine my craft. An honest reaction to a poem and constuctive advice on how it could be made better is what could make a good writter into a great writer. As far as emotional content goes, people are different. Some are more emotional that others. Maybe the writer is depressed and thier writing will bleed emotional devastation......others may just hint at it......To me if the emotions are real and that is what the writer is going through at that time then for them to be able to express it through verse as opposed to through something damaging then that is always a good thing and who am i to judge the content of thier emotions. I would like my writing to be judged on the quality of the poem itself first and its ability to touch something inside the reader that they can relate to second. If someone doesn't like the flow or the context of my poem by all means tell me what could make it better. I don't understand how anyone can take personal something someone says to you that does not know you personally. If I got a comment that I felt was bashing me personally, I would give it a giggle and know that I hit a nerve. If I come across someones work that was offensive to me, I would first have to ask my self why i am so offended by it.....If I am offended then there is no reason to continue to read it.....Would I leave a comment telling the writer how offensive I think the poem is.....no I would not. Because I have not walked in that writers shoes or been where that writer is at and don't know them so how can I judge the content of what they feel the need to express. If the form was good, the flow on time and they writting done well and with passion....then that is how it should be judged. Just my oppinion and who the *&%% am I anyway.

Re: not to be mean but....

sorry for the typo's.....

Re: not to be mean but....

Dah....You have it right!!!!

for the rest of you *takes shot gun...puts in mouth...thinks about pulling trigger...decides against it...throws shot gun out window...it bounces and its a rock...trigger gets triggered...blows my head off*

Possibly the greatest piece of advice anyone has ever offered me is not to take my work or anyone elses for that matter, too seriously. When you do...it really becomes work. Kinda like the "chairots of fire" movie. The person who was serious forgot that running was fun.

Re: not to be mean but....

that was what i was trying to say.......what he said people!!!!!!!!!!!! and if you can't be good....be good at it.....best advice i ever got was "never eat a hot dog on a date" at 15 from my dad....i had no idea what he was talking about until I was 36. lol

Re: not to be mean but....

inda funny how folks say they wnt to improve but when someone offers a suggestion on how to improve the fangs come out! lol

Re: not to be mean but....

I strongly disagree with Minot (yes I know his credentials it doesn't mean he is correct) who is anybody to say anything was artificially forced for one and for two if you take the emotion out of poetry what are you left with? Now are the type of poems a bit too much sometimes when they pretty much say he/she is gone its over I'm a goner sure it is but with experience they will eventually be able to add depth to that. Just my humble opinion of course

Re: not to be mean but....

Not taking the emotion out, but avoiding sentimentality...and perhaps if the poetry is good, evoking that emotion in the reader without using the hackneyed imagery like puppies etc unless you wanted to evoke a sense of nausea! Than you have accomplished your goal! lol

Personally I like to read poetry that doesn't spell it out, but I feel something from reading it, then i go back and see the imagery, allegory, etc and the I am a lot more appreciative, but... To be totally PC. It's all good! Everyone writes great. All the stuff I have read is terrific. Positive energy always. Etc etc.

Re: not to be mean but....

It is taking the emotion out lc because weak minded individuals like Stephen Minot can't handle bluntness it isn't about layers with people like him it is about not being able to cope with adversity so therefore he needs something written one way so he can take it a different way and honestly you don't have to ever be pc with me because I will never ever respect a pc individual

Re: not to be mean but....

Wow, FoF! Congrats on your book deals! May you have many more successes! I too would value your critiquing of my work!

Re: not to be mean but....

You don't need to be intelligent to write poetry...