just a suggestion

I realize that many writers would rather not have their poetry critiqued and I understand that. But for those that do, I think some sort of basic hints list would help.

I critiqued 4 poems tonight and really basically mentioned the same thing to each one. Maybe you could divide needy areas into levels and number them, helping each interested poet to complete one level before attempting the next.

And of course this would only be for writers who want to do it--it wouldn't be a rule or a boundary or a commitment, etc. of any kind.

I need to do some research anyway regarding poetry critique. I'd love to help if you're interested. OH, and if you use my page as a reference of my poetry, please give me sometime to add a few more. It's been awhile, and my poetry, I think, has improved since my last post here.


cheryl

Last edited by GingerTyme 09-20-2009 at 07:45:25 AM

Re: just a suggestion

Re: just a suggestion

Here it is, Poetry in a nutshell/ The basic Stuff

Here Are Some Simple Basics To Help Your Writing:
They are basics that hold true most of the time.

1. Poetry is a musical, a metaphorical and a connotative aural language with a structure that fits its contextual concept in presentation.

2. All poems have 3 basic literary parts:
a.) The opening= this is the grabbers and the introduction to the poem's concept. (grabbers) are words and phrases in the title and first 3-4 lines that pull the reader into the poem and set up the metaphor and/or storyline as well.
b.) The turning point= this is the place in the poem where the concept will change or shift toward something new. It presents a related idea at times or a totally new concept.
c.) The closure. This is the hardest part of any poem to write. It has to combine the opening and the turning point of the poem into a single concept. Everyone attempts to do this on their poems to being closure, but sometimes the can’t identify the turning. So just become more conscious of the turning and opening when you form the closure to the poem. Look back to the beginning and the turning in the poem and then draw them together in own personal way.

3. Watch the verb tense and maintain it throughout the poem. if it is past tense keep the whole poem past tense.

4. Watch the personage in the poem: If it's first person write the whole poem in first person, don't be skipping from I to you. or from we to they.

5. if you want depth within your poem use metaphors. They say a lot in just a few words.

6. REMEMBER THIS FOREVER: poems show they don't tell. Basically that’s using concrete images and not abstract ideas. It’s not explaining the poem to the reader.

7. know the difference between concrete images and abstract ideas. Know that the abstract has to be reinforced with the concrete to help maintain the reader in a mood of feeling something about the subject matter. A concrete image is an image with a simple single definition, like: a rose. We hear the word and then we have a picture in our mind. That’s a concrete image.

8. Know that the reader is suppose to have an epiphany from your poem. This means you can't be telling the reader what your poem means. Let them discover it by what you have shown them within the poem. An epiphany will make them read the poem over and over again because they like the experience they get from that little revelation you have created inside the poem that they discover within themselves. It also makes the reader part of the poem, and they feel ownership from having their own epiphany. This actually attaches the reader and the poem together in a very personal fashion.

9. Things to watch out for, try to stay away from the over-use of (ing) words, (ly) words, and the over use of the word (of), especially as a metaphor. Which 9 out of 10 time is the case when the word (of) is used. They can inundate a poem. Also the over-use of adverbs and adjectives as filler. A modifier should only heighten the intent in the complete poem and not just the line or image where it is attached. Most adjectives can be cut from a poem and the content would be stronger in presentation.

10. Try to stay away from the really big abstracts, show them rather than say them. These in a nutshell are (soul) it’s become the biggest cliché in poetic history as the only way to feel pain, right down to the soul. Huey: if someone is feeling pain they are feeling it in their soul. And (God) is something different to each of us no matter how well you describe the experience. In fact just describing the experience is far better than using the word at all. Far better in that it allows the reader to share your personal experience. My final say on this item is: a good writer knows how to say it without saying it at all. They know how to present concepts without defining them at all. They know how to make you feel things and know things with ever defining or explaining them on the page.

11. Finally: Mind you, take note, I am not saying to do only these things or not to do these things whatever the case may be personally. I am saying be concerned when you choose to do or not to do these things for they will effect the outcome of your complete presentation in many very different ways. Be “wise” within your choices is my only real caution here. Think it through. Ask yourself do I need this to make the poem complete. Do I need this to make the reader have their epiphany. Those are the things that would complete the poem in it’s final presentation. Knowing how much to give is just as important as knowing how to give. Too much or too little and the reader is lost.

Here is how to write a critique.
The quick and easy critique deals with the 3 parts to the poem.
1. opening: (set up the metaphor and interest for reader)
2. turning point: (shift in the context)
3. closure: (ties opening and turning together.)

That's pretty basic. Anyone who writes should be able to do this. All forms of literature have these 3 basic parts or more added parts besides these three basics. Just let the poet know if you see them or not, and whether they are working or not. Poetry is a metaphorical and connotative language that has form and music as well. These things can be talked about in a critique as well. Stay focused on what is written on the page and not the writer. Only speak about the presentation’s words that are set before you and how they work or don’t work as you see it for the betterment of the poem. Be honest and direct in presentation. Make your statements believable for the reader. Believe what you are saying. A critique should be written for the writer to rethink his work from beginning to end. It is NOT about compliance, agreement, or even making any changes. The critique is a success if it allows the reader to rethink their poem from the presentation of another’s eyes. How they saw the poem on the page.

General Information
What reference books do you have? A poetry dictionary and a poetry handbook that defines the terminology of poetry; They are great to have for information about writing poems and for writing criticism as well. Criticism will teach you a lot about writing poetry. By tearing apart poems you learn about poetry structure and form. By analyzing a poem you learn to identify forms of presentation: ie meter, sonnet, villanelle, etc. You learn to see the depth of the poem behind the metaphors. The other side of the metaphorical presentation of concept and thought. You learn to be the critical reader that discerns for themselves what works or doesn’t work for the complete presentation of a poem. You learn to think about a poem as a whole presentation and not just a bunch of rhyming lines. You learn the nuances and complexities of each poem you read an analyze. In the end reading poetry becomes more exciting because you see so much more of what is hidden within the depth of the poems you read anywhere. And one last thing you get to know and share information with fellow writers and a grand scale and a great level of concern.



A poet friend
RH Peat © 2009

Re: just a suggestion

Thanks for the pointers RHPeat! This helps me a lot with my writing and critiquing!

Re: Re: just a suggestion

Re: just a suggestion

Yes I did and I thank you that and for including poetic prose in the midst. On a extra note; Thank you for your critique, you brought to attention what few see with advise for it's correction hehehe silly me.

Re: Re: just a suggestion

Re: Re: Re: just a suggestion

Last edited by cousinsoren 09-28-2009 at 08:19:59 PM

Re: just a suggestion

Ltr2 cousinsoren on craft: “bland verse”

Thanx for the comment cousinsoren

I might do that, but then again I'm not so sure it would be well received by some here. I've had my share or head-bonkers for the month. I questioned whether I should have even posted this statement. Many will see the suggestions as rules. I figure there is only one rule. Be who you are; the best that you can become at your craft with every breath. Learn it all so that your choices are broadened, not narrowed. Be inclusive, not exclusive, or reclusive. Be able to speak or write to anyone, and not just those that are in agreement with you. It is easy to write to a captive audience. Talent on the other hand is the ability to write to those beyond your own self-beliefs to allow the reader to see something new and unknown to them; this is what makes or brakes the concept of real authorship. Many have the attitude that if you call it a poem; it is so. While a real poem, called a poem or not, will actually capture the reader to make them part of the poem through a personal epiphany. In turn, the reader becomes part owner of the poem through their personal epiphany, and they even want to revisit the poem again and again. This is what authorship is really about; the ability to give the poem away to the heart of any reader. It is an offering about getting others to listen: to hear their own depths within the poem. It's not an easy thing to do at all. Words in general have many obstructions. Connotations that turn readers off. Blatant attacks of the reader loses the reader. They just stop reading. If a poem become boring to me; I stop reading. If I feel it; others will feel the same. And I personally have poems that fit into these categories as well. Confusion which lies in the presentation of the poem is yet another concern at time. The craft of getting and maintaining a reader while saying what you want to say to them isn’t easy by any means. It is truly a real craft for sure. How do we get the reader past our own obstructions in language to capture them into just reading our thoughts is a job that takes a lot of skill and knowledge about the craft of writing.

A real writer wants to pull the reader into the depth of the words past all the obstructions into the state that he has created for the reader to dwell in to have their epiphany. He is interested in what lies behind, or beneath the words, and not just the rhymes or the lines. And this is what you are speaking about when you say there is: "bland verse". What is it that lies below the surface of a poem that actually moves into the reader’s consciousness? Where does a poem begin or end: or is its metaphorical premise without end. Is the poem entering places beyond mere words? Many cannot even imagine that the poem is like an iceberg with 10 percent above the surface and 90 percent below the surface ready for the vessel of the reader to run-aground. They don't realize it is what is not said but suggested by the poem which has greater significance to a reader. For truly, it is what lies in the depths that will change a reader’s mind or heart about any concept. You can preach to a person all day and it won't mean a thing. But if they are allowed to have their own epiphany within the music of the poem at the same time; it's going to stick with them, like biscuits and grave in the gut. They will see the possibility in their own life, each day; for the answer was derived from themselves. So much of what makes verses bland is telling, preaching and explaining the poem to the reader, or by focusing on the rhyme over and beyond the depth of the line or even the poem. I’ve read a lot of verse that looks like it is constructed for the rhyme and not the content or intent of the poem at all. Who wants it. I don't; it’s boring. Besides, I like to figure things out for myself like most everyone does. This is the difficulty of authorship, which I was speaking about earlier. Being able to give something to a reader is one thing, but knowing how much to give is real wisdom at work; when you see it pulled off well within a poem it is grand. Giving too much or too little and the poem is lost. When a writer can hold the poem on the apex of the sword's cutting edge between both sides of the metaphor; he's got something grand for sure. And the line will not be bland at all.

a poet friend
RH Peat

Re: Re: just a suggestion

Last edited by cousinsoren 09-28-2009 at 08:32:06 PM