My Position; 'I Don't Know'
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'[quote="CorinthiaSugar"]Ok, I want a Slushy. Last edited by cousinsoren 06-17-2010 at 09:55:06 PM |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Hello all I would like a cup, 8 sugars and two creams to wake my mind up. |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'I have read all of this, talked about it. Love it all, Respect it all. Last edited by WordSlinger 06-21-2010 at 12:28:07 PM |
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RE: RE: My Position; Yes, I know!Quote: Originally Posted by Aria Here is a man who was born in an obscure village, the Child of a peasant woman. He worked in a carpenter shop until He was thirty, and then for three years He was an itinerant preacher. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never owned a home. He never had a family. He never went to college. He never put His foot inside a big city. He never traveled two hundred miles from the place where He was born. He never did one of the things that usually accompany greatness. He had no credentials but Himself. He had nothing to do with this world except the naked power of His Divine manhood. While still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against Him. He was turned over to His enemies. He went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a Cross between two thieves. His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had on earth while He was dying—and that was His coat. When He was dead He was taken down and laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend. Such was His human life—He rises from the dead. Nineteen wide centuries have come and gone and today He is the Centerpiece of the human race and the Leader of the column of progress. I am within the mark when I say that all the armies that ever marched, and all the navies that ever were built, and all the parliaments that ever sat, and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as has that One Solitary Life. --James C. Hefley Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40, and Jesus for only 3. Yet the influence of Christ's 3-year ministry infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men who were among the greatest philosophers of all antiquity. –Unknown I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are very wise and very beautiful; but I never read in either of them: "Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden." --Augustine I would rather believe in God and be wrong... for what have I to lose if I am wrong? I believe. - Aria $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A beautiful and convincing festimony , Aria. Great reasoning and convincingly clear arguments id this is balm to torn lives, I too would rather believe in God and be wrong. |
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My Position; 'I Do Know'Charles Manson didn’t believe in God. If he had, Sharon Tate and |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'These are facts and not something that I have made up. |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: Originally Posted by WordSlinger I have read all of this, talked about it. Love it all, Respect it all. but what matters the most is what we teach our children. and that is to love, to teach to love, and to detect a human that does not. We are all a child, and i dont care if you are 57, you are. It is our duty to take stones from the path of the youth, so they don't repeat stupidity, Kahil Gibran said it best, all these words. So when you see a child, and when they smile  at you, they see no sins of yours.and when they look at you smile, and say a word, you can't help but glow inside, and smile, say hello. so to me that/this is what matters most. Closed mouths don't get fed right, but becareful what you hunger for. Last Post: I am back to my God Given Gifts, My Kids, Madelynn, and my Poetry Phantom, with lots of love. (My Poetry came first, but guess what, Poetry is Poetry) believe that. Coffee to go please, my path has been cut wide open.... :X @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ You are on the right course, John. Your compass and your chart are correct, Read Micah 6: 9) from THE BEAST. PEACE |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'WoW! John- I love that entry you shared in this thread!- So true- We(mankind) buys and sells land, prospers, profit shares- and, it's not really ours to be 'swappin', using- and ruining. We are simply 'borrowers', and what we choose to do with our 'lent' atmospher, effects all- for generations. Such a cool think piece, filled with some beautifully inscribed poetry! Cool- |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'-Chiggar |
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RE: My Position; 'I Do Know'Quote: Originally Posted by gogant Charles Manson didn’t believe in God. If he had, Sharon Tate and others might not have died that fateful night. God is not a man, nor a woman, nor is he Buddha, Allah, or Zeus, he is an entity. God is everything there is, everything there was, and everything that is yet to come. God is the cosmos; our entire range of thought; and by believing, we will be better than we would if we did not believe. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ George , you have summed it up in a nutshell. Very good. To convince some poeple that this is absolute truth, is another kettle of fish. The human race, the Christian world, in particular , do not accept when spiritual or religious matters are explained in simple terms., R It's better to believe than not to believe. If we refuse to believe that there is a Supreme Intelligent Energy from which .shines in each living thing a tiny spark by which each living thing breathe, feel, move, need and think, then a human being is like a boat without rudder or oar lost in the wide, deep, blue sea. There s no harm, whatever,in adoring that Supreme Intelligent Energy, and in calling that Supreme Intelligent Energy Almighty God. PEACE, My Brother. Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 03:46:07 AM |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: Originally Posted by dahlusion These are facts and not something that I have made up. This is from the man responsible for creating Christianity, that delusional apostle Paul: As in all churches and temples of the saints, the women should be silent in these churches and temples. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the house of God ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 ). This is from another delusional man: Augustine taught a religion (Christianity) that says: Men and women will regard their humanity as chronically flawed with “Original Sin”, and that men must rule over women, and that women are the reason for Original Sin and disobedience to God. The word “Original Sin” appears nowhere in the Bible. Augustine was also responsible for the policy of demonizing women and sex, and he forevermore laid guilt upon Christians by stating that the very nature of all humanity is hateful to the Creator. It was men like these two women fearing demons that wrote the Bible and claimed it to be the Word Of God and Jesus, when in fact, it’s the word of delusional, misogynistic men who loathed women, sex, and the mind’s free-will. The two words 'Original Sin' are used by man to describe human sin..the first noted human sin- that does not discredit the fact that 'sin' or, for you athiests-' hurtful behaviors' exsist. Why does the term 'original sin' have to be used to prove that a first transgression happened?- Of course their was a first nasty act done in this world!- and human beings, weather we want to acknowledge God , the Bible, or Christ, have habitual, filthy traits- and do unspeakable things.. that is a fact. There are many diffrent testamonies of the Bible. Many, many, many...as many revisions, many, many, many.. As before 1830s- women in the Untied States were found to be of unequal mind of the male's intellect. Women did not become truely liberated until the 1930s!! This was way after- as you are aware I am sure- God, and the government were made seperate in the United States Superior Courts. Now this is America, Im talkin' about- In the middle-east this abuse toward females, continues to be a struggle, and yes- much in the name of their religious beliefs! Sooo- this said- How in the heck was it possible for the males, of Christ's time, to have proclaimed women to be of equal stature? You have to take into consideration, the culture of the biblical era- the location, the mindset- which in that part of the country..continues today! This was not the product og GOD, Dah- this was the product of human ignorance, weather you believe in God or not!- For the 'Bible- belt' communities out there, the realization of revisions, lost scriptures, and 'parable teachings' are considered, as well as the fact; that hey. times are not the way the once were!(thank God for that!) In the end- I feel the facts you just stated, are decorated attempts of your opinions, as you did not address 'every writer' of scriptures, nor were you present(as, neither was I), and do not have knowledge of the first original writings of intention,-due to all the crazy- revisions, and cultures!- 'It was men like these two women fearing demons that wrote the Bible and claimed it to be the Word Of God and Jesus, when in fact, it’s the word of delusional, misogynistic men who loathed women, sex, and the mind’s free-will' -Sounds alot like opinion to me. There are a host of crimes against women today- that are happening NOW not thousands of yrs ago... why not address them? It just seems so weak to always go for 'the Bible card' when trying to discredit God, God is diffrent- to all diffrent types of people, in all diffrent parts of the world..are you going to search every single religious belief concerning a main energy source, a 'GOD'- and try and find holes in their historical followers, or 'cave writings'. I didn't meet these men- but Jesus trusted them(that's good enough for me!) Hey, I wasn't there when these books were written. I can't say what these guys truely wanted to be heard in the end- my position is; I dont know but then again...neither do you. -my opinion 
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote:
Originally Posted by JLorian Mind if I sit down and join you? It's starting to rain outside (naturally, Bike Week in NH, it always rains!) so I have some time to take from my garden and the rally. I'll take a pass on the coffee, never touch the stuff. I drink tea...no worries, I've brought it with me. I've been listening to this conversation with some interest. What has caught my attention is the distinction between "religion" and "spirituality". I think that anytime we find in necessary to confine spirituality into a set of rules, it becomes organized religion. Do we need some rules? Yes. And the important ones transcend religious differences. The 10 Commandments, Sermon on the Mount, Golden Rule...good advice, all. It's when any particular religion decides that it is absolutely right and that everyone must fall into step and march with their drummer, well that's when my hackles begin to rise. The fact is, the lovely old lady who stops by my house on a regular basis bearing pamphlets from her church does not know, for a fact, that her perspective is right. She comes with a "one size fits all" approach to spirituality that is shared, unquestioningly, by the people who attend her church. These people accept it without condition. They adhere to it's tenets and doctrines and dogmas and intolerances for the sake of what they believe is righteousness. They believe they are doing Gods work. To illustrate, I think we can agree that the Westboro Baptists are members of a religion, but in their message of hate and intolerance, I fail to see much spirituality. Nevertheless, they are abiding by the accepted rules of their religion, no matter who it hurts. Spirituality, on the other hand, is an individual living, growing, experiential approach to remaining in touch with that which we think of as God, the Great Spirit. There is often no book or accepted tenet to fall back on. There is no dogma to guide us. Sometimes there's not even a group. Spirituality advocates personal responsibility in our relationship with the high power and with the earth and her inhabitants. I think it comes as no surprise to most of the people who have read my work that I am not Christian. My points of view may be a bit different than yours but the more we learn, the more we find those differences are superficial and can be overcome...imagine that...if we can do that, you and I, there is no reason why the entire world cannot. Something to strive for.... So how about this: The consciousness that we think of as God has always existed and will always exist but purely as Spirit. In an effort to expand its own awareness, it exploded and everything you know came to be over billions of years which is, of course, the span of a moment to a being that is timeless; beforehand time never existed anyway. Everything that is or was or could be became infused with that Spirit and came to be through the infinite imagination of the All and Unmanifest Higher Power...eventually to include you and to include me. We exist on this plane to acquire life experiences, both good and bad, because this thing we carry around in our heart of hearts is a splinter of God; immortal and eternal. We fill that spirit and when we die, we return to what we essentially are: our bodies become the earth; our spirits return to the ocean that is the Whole and we become a sort of collective unconscious where we share wisdoms and rest to be born again. It is each splinters job to complete many lifetimes to learn as much as possible. When that happens, a sort of spiritual sentience occurs allowing that individual to become pure spirit with no need to return to the body. That is heaven or nirvana. These spirits can choose to remain as Spirit Guides for others. Yes, I definately believe we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. But balance? No, I think we left that behind a while back. It used to be that we lived in small communities where we depended on each other for survival. Now, well I'm having a conversation with people I've never met via electronics. It used to be that women died in childbirth and 45 was an Elder and we farmed the land and reeped what we sowed. But look at us now. We're so afraid that we've looked into the abyss and found it empty that we are terrified to die. We'll do just about anything to prolong our time here because what if there is nothing else? Or, oh my, what if God really is going to be pissed off when I get there and send me to burn in hell? So we have far more people living on this planet than the earth can support and so very few are making any attempt at all to live in balance and reduce their carbon footprint. I think we forgot to have faith. By that I mean we forgot to accept that death is a sacred part of life and to trust the Higher Power in that wisdom. Now, about that devil... No. I do not believe in Satan. His mythology doesn't belong to a pagan like me. Christian mythology sees a God of absolute (there's that word again!) righteousness and so needed a little dark thrown in there for comparison. Pagan gods don't have that problem, they've got dark of their own. Zeus didn't need to threaten Promethius with damnation: he was perfectly capable of tacking the boy to the mountain himself. Message to ancient Greeks: don't mess with Zeus. They come packaged with their own inherant flaws, because they are ancient personifications of the various aspects of the All and Unmanifest. They helped the Ancients explain, well probably a very similar set of questions as these that we are discussing. Ultimately, we don't know any more than they did. I think that the gods of the old religion became the devils of the new religion. I think the new religion separated the good from the bad, the wheat from the chaffe and decided that anyone who could not come to their understanding of God would be destroyed. Oh, look, we're still doing that. But God doesn't really care what we call her/him/it. That is a petty human difference that will cease to matter the moment we cross into Spirit. God only cares that we maintain the connection. When I am in Ritual and I evoke Aphrodite or Cerridwen, Bastet or Isis, or whatever god or goddess I'm speaking with, I am connecting with that particular facet of what you think of as God . The difference between Isis and Jahovah is an illusion. The difference between you and me is an illusion. They are One. We are One. We always were. We always will be. So onto Jesus. I like Jesus. He's my brother. Do I think he was the son of God? Yes. But then again, I think you are the daughter of God as I am. I think Jesus was an extraordinarily clear minded, evolved Spirit but still just one of us. I think he saw a different Path and beckoned us toward it. I think he tried to tell us how to live in Peace and Love and Light and, threatened by change, tradition killed him. I think he was an amazing man who knew the risk he was taking and let it be because that change was bigger than he was. More important. He was a man who laid down his life for the betterment of mankind. Wow. That is just so much cooler than a demigod who risked nothing, really, at all. I mean, if you know you're going to draw an ace, you're not really risking the pot, are you? We've known others like Jesus, though they don't have religions in their honor, among them King and Kennedy; Ghandi and Lennon. They stood for an ideal bigger than themselves and died with that message on their lips. That is indeed evil but there's really no devil to pin that on. We did that ourselves. Just like all those wars that we blame on God. Silly human race. We don't even live up to our own expectations yet we force those expectations onto others. We fly our banner of righteousness proclaiming superior enlightenment yet forget the most basic of these truths, to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Instead, we do unto others first. So much for enlightenment. And while I concede that, in truth, we just don't know, still, you gotta have faith. Okay, time for that second cup of tea. Still no sunshine outside. I guess I'll hang around for a while. Peace. JL @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Excellent and sublime spirtuality, compehensibility and practicability............Lorian. These three as you so clearly, simply and eloquenttly expounded is the key to heaven;y bllss on earth and the hopes of salvation through human redemption, love which St. Paul calls charity, and faith in the rhings not seen ,but hoped for. The prophet Micah, however , adjures mankind to believe in the good you see, to love mercy, to do what you know to be right,and to walk humbly with the Being who committed to inpired men throughout all ages. "I am the Lord,Thy God." Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 07:19:07 AM |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: Originally Posted by dahlusion These are facts and not something that I have made up. This is from the man responsible for creating Christianity, that delusional apostle Paul: As in all churches and temples of the saints, the women should be silent in these churches and temples. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the house of God ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 ). This is from another delusional man: Augustine taught a religion (Christianity) that says: Men and women will regard their humanity as chronically flawed with “Original Sin”, and that men must rule over women, and that women are the reason for Original Sin and disobedience to God. The word “Original Sin” appears nowhere in the Bible. Augustine was also responsible for the policy of demonizing women and sex, and he forevermore laid guilt upon Christians by stating that the very nature of all humanity is hateful to the Creator. It was men like these two women fearing demons that wrote the Bible and claimed it to be the Word Of God and Jesus, when in fact, it’s the word of delusional, misogynistic men who loathed women, sex, and the mind’s free-will. 222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 Dah,My Friend, You need to research and srudy closely and unemotionally how the Bible originated. The Bible, as a compendium of Man's temporal and spiritual experience , history, philosophy, sciences. politics and literature, originated and were orally handed down by "inspired story tellers', usually men who claimed to be holy) hundreds of years before the Aramaic people learnt to write. Sacred Stories of Man's experience of a Supreme Intelligence and Energye was and is still an evolutionary process which reached a siginificant and moat dominamt stage under Roman rule , as we see in that section of the sacred writings known as the New Testament. A very careful historical investigation reveals that Augustine and your other "Mysogynists and haters of women did little or nothing to the Bible, as we know it. Augustine ,and Constantine, for instance , made political changes to theology and religious observances such as festivals and day of worship , which did not radically affect the original sacred writing in any way. For instance , some people were worshipping on Saturday'and some were worshipping on Sunday long before Augustine was born. Some bishops were claiming that God is two persons. Some bishops were claiming that God is three persons, and the Judaists were claiming that Jehovah is one God long before Augusrine and Constantine were born. These people you mentioned did not wriite the sacred scriptures. Scholars translated into Greek and Latin.,in earlier ages than now, from the original Aramaic which once covered from Genesis to Revelation (From "In the beginning" to "O Daniel ,close the book,.to he final words,of warning, ':No man shall add to nor take from the words of the book of this prophesy ".) None of these translatiors, aestheitic thoughts, manipulation by agnostics , despots, deviates, science, persecxution, Bible burning, Inquisition ets, etc. have been able to destroy or distort the fundamental truths and guidelines in The Christian Bible, for Man's redemption and his relationship with his God. Last edited by cousinsoren 06-20-2010 at 03:11:40 AM |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: [/b]
Originally Posted by dahlusion These are facts and not something that I have made up. This is from the man responsible for creating Christianity, that delusional apostle Paul: As in all churches and temples of the saints, the women should be silent in these churches and temples. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the house of God ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 ). This is from another delusional man: Augustine taught a religion (Christianity) that says: Men and women will regard their humanity as chronically flawed with “Original Sin”, and that men must rule over women, and that women are the reason for Original Sin and disobedience to God. The word “Original Sin” appears nowhere in the Bible. Augustine was also responsible for the policy of demonizing women and sex, and he forevermore laid guilt upon Christians by stating that the very nature of all humanity is hateful to the Creator. It was men like these two women fearing demons that wrote the Bible and claimed it to be the Word Of God and Jesus, when in fact, it’s the word of delusional, misogynistic men who loathed women, sex, and the mind’s free-will. ********************************************************************************************************** Paul's attitude to women unfortunately was more a cultural problem rather than a spiritual one. The belief that a woman caused the Fall of Man ; that menstruation made women unclean, that the mother of humans was made from a man and therefore inferior to man and must be kept in a position inferior to men; that women were men's property like his sheep and his goat, was dominant and the custom of those days. The women themselves saw nothing wrong with it, and if they did, did not protest, in olden days.. Old customs die hard. Christianity was and still an evolutionary process It has gone through hard times because it is adminstered and often frustrated by morally imperfect Man for morally inperfect Man. There is nothing wrong with the spiritual essence of Christianity Man's civilized asvancement has been blessed and is tempered by it, Man's tragedy and tendency to hopelessness and reaignation is cush-ioned by hope infused by it. Last edited by cousinsoren 06-18-2010 at 10:28:08 PM |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: [/b]Originally Posted by dahlusion These are facts and not something that I have made up. This is from the man responsible for creating Christianity, that delusional apostle Paul: As in all churches and temples of the saints, the women should be silent in these churches and temples. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the house of God ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 ). This is from another delusional man: Augustine taught a religion (Christianity) that says: Men and women will regard their humanity as chronically flawed with “Original Sin”, and that men must rule over women, and that women are the reason for Original Sin and disobedience to God. The word “Original Sin” appears nowhere in the Bible. Augustine was also responsible for the policy of demonizing women and sex, and he forevermore laid guilt upon Christians by stating that the very nature of all humanity is hateful to the Creator. It was men like these two women fearing demons that wrote the Bible and claimed it to be the Word Of God and Jesus, when in fact, it’s the word of delusional, misogynistic men who loathed women, sex, and the mind’s free-will. ********************************************************************************************************** Paul's attitude to women unfortunately was more a cultural problem rather than a spiritual one. The belief that a woman caused the Fall of Man ; that menstruation made women unclean, that the mother of humans was made from a man and therefore inferior to man and must be kept in a position inferior to men; that women were men's property like his sheep and his goat, was dominant and the custom of those days. The women themselves saw nothing wrong with it. Old customs die hard. Christianity was and still an evolutionary process It has gone through hard times because it is adminstered and often frustrated by morally imperfect Man for morally inperfect Man. There is nothing wrong with the spiritual essence of Christianity Man's civilized asvancement has been blessed and is tempered by it, Man's tragedy and tendency to hopelessness and resignation is cushioned by hope infused by it. What alarms and intriques me most is that women have taken so long to protest these ancient chauvinistic, false and unjust estimation of womanhood, In my opinion the Judaic story of a woman thwarting God's original plan to create a perfect world is the greatest injustice that has ever been done not only to womanhood, but to all humanity. All women had to do to protest and force men to change their chauvinistic attitude was to refuse sex to men ,even to face death, Now it is a bit late, but not too late. There is no mention in sacred history that the god-man Christ ever mentioned that a woman brought sin to the world. There are records that he had the greatest respect for them----even treated them with reverence, Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 05:41:59 AM |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote:
Originally Posted by JLorian Mind if I sit down and join you? It's starting to rain outside (naturally, Bike Week in NH, it always rains!) so I have some time to take from my garden and the rally. I'll take a pass on the coffee, never touch the stuff. I drink tea...no worries, I've brought it with me. I've been listening to this conversation with some interest. What has caught my attention is the distinction between "religion" and "spirituality". I think that anytime we find in necessary to confine spirituality into a set of rules, it becomes organized religion. Do we need some rules? Yes. And the important ones transcend religious differences. The 10 Commandments, Sermon on the Mount, Golden Rule...good advice, all. It's when any particular religion decides that it is absolutely right and that everyone must fall into step and march with their drummer, well that's when my hackles begin to rise. The fact is, the lovely old lady who stops by my house on a regular basis bearing pamphlets from her church does not know, for a fact, that her perspective is right. She comes with a "one size fits all" approach to spirituality that is shared, unquestioningly, by the people who attend her church. These people accept it without condition. They adhere to it's tenets and doctrines and dogmas and intolerances for the sake of what they believe is righteousness. They believe they are doing Gods work. To illustrate, I think we can agree that the Westboro Baptists are members of a religion, but in their message of hate and intolerance, I fail to see much spirituality. Nevertheless, they are abiding by the accepted rules of their religion, no matter who it hurts. Spirituality, on the other hand, is an individual living, growing, experiential approach to remaining in touch with that which we think of as God, the Great Spirit. There is often no book or accepted tenet to fall back on. There is no dogma to guide us. Sometimes there's not even a group. Spirituality advocates personal responsibility in our relationship with the high power and with the earth and her inhabitants. I think it comes as no surprise to most of the people who have read my work that I am not Christian. My points of view may be a bit different than yours but the more we learn, the more we find those differences are superficial and can be overcome...imagine that...if we can do that, you and I, there is no reason why the entire world cannot. Something to strive for.... So how about this: The consciousness that we think of as God has always existed and will always exist but purely as Spirit. In an effort to expand its own awareness, it exploded and everything you know came to be over billions of years which is, of course, the span of a moment to a being that is timeless; beforehand time never existed anyway. Everything that is or was or could be became infused with that Spirit and came to be through the infinite imagination of the All and Unmanifest Higher Power...eventually to include you and to include me. We exist on this plane to acquire life experiences, both good and bad, because this thing we carry around in our heart of hearts is a splinter of God; immortal and eternal. We fill that spirit and when we die, we return to what we essentially are: our bodies become the earth; our spirits return to the ocean that is the Whole and we become a sort of collective unconscious where we share wisdoms and rest to be born again. It is each splinters job to complete many lifetimes to learn as much as possible. When that happens, a sort of spiritual sentience occurs allowing that individual to become pure spirit with no need to return to the body. That is heaven or nirvana. These spirits can choose to remain as Spirit Guides for others. Yes, I definately believe we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. But balance? No, I think we left that behind a while back. It used to be that we lived in small communities where we depended on each other for survival. Now, well I'm having a conversation with people I've never met via electronics. It used to be that women died in childbirth and 45 was an Elder and we farmed the land and reeped what we sowed. But look at us now. We're so afraid that we've looked into the abyss and found it empty that we are terrified to die. We'll do just about anything to prolong our time here because what if there is nothing else? Or, oh my, what if God really is going to be pissed off when I get there and send me to burn in hell? So we have far more people living on this planet than the earth can support and so very few are making any attempt at all to live in balance and reduce their carbon footprint. I think we forgot to have faith. By that I mean we forgot to accept that death is a sacred part of life and to trust the Higher Power in that wisdom. Now, about that devil... No. I do not believe in Satan. His mythology doesn't belong to a pagan like me. Christian mythology sees a God of absolute (there's that word again!) righteousness and so needed a little dark thrown in there for comparison. Pagan gods don't have that problem, they've got dark of their own. Zeus didn't need to threaten Promethius with damnation: he was perfectly capable of tacking the boy to the mountain himself. Message to ancient Greeks: don't mess with Zeus. They come packaged with their own inherant flaws, because they are ancient personifications of the various aspects of the All and Unmanifest. They helped the Ancients explain, well probably a very similar set of questions as these that we are discussing. Ultimately, we don't know any more than they did. I think that the gods of the old religion became the devils of the new religion. I think the new religion separated the good from the bad, the wheat from the chaffe and decided that anyone who could not come to their understanding of God would be destroyed. Oh, look, we're still doing that. But God doesn't really care what we call her/him/it. That is a petty human difference that will cease to matter the moment we cross into Spirit. God only cares that we maintain the connection. When I am in Ritual and I evoke Aphrodite or Cerridwen, Bastet or Isis, or whatever god or goddess I'm speaking with, I am connecting with that particular facet of what you think of as God . The difference between Isis and Jahovah is an illusion. The difference between you and me is an illusion. They are One. We are One. We always were. We always will be. So onto Jesus. I like Jesus. He's my brother. Do I think he was the son of God? Yes. But then again, I think you are the daughter of God as I am. I think Jesus was an extraordinarily clear minded, evolved Spirit but still just one of us. I think he saw a different Path and beckoned us toward it. I think he tried to tell us how to live in Peace and Love and Light and, threatened by change, tradition killed him. I think he was an amazing man who knew the risk he was taking and let it be because that change was bigger than he was. More important. He was a man who laid down his life for the betterment of mankind. Wow. That is just so much cooler than a demigod who risked nothing, really, at all. I mean, if you know you're going to draw an ace, you're not really risking the pot, are you? We've known others like Jesus, though they don't have religions in their honor, among them King and Kennedy; Ghandi and Lennon. They stood for an ideal bigger than themselves and died with that message on their lips. That is indeed evil but there's really no devil to pin that on. We did that ourselves. Just like all those wars that we blame on God. Silly human race. We don't even live up to our own expectations yet we force those expectations onto others. We fly our banner of righteousness proclaiming superior enlightenment yet forget the most basic of these truths, to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Instead, we do unto others first. So much for enlightenment. And while I concede that, in truth, we just don't know, still, you gotta have faith. Okay, time for that second cup of tea. Still no sunshine outside. I guess I'll hang around for a while. Peace. JL 2@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ "And while I concede that, in truth, we just don't know, still, you gotta have faith.". |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote:
Originally Posted by JLorian Mind if I sit down and join you? It's starting to rain outside (naturally, Bike Week in NH, it always rains!) so I have some time to take from my garden and the rally. I'll take a pass on the coffee, never touch the stuff. I drink tea...no worries, I've brought it with me. I've been listening to this conversation with some interest. What has caught my attention is the distinction between "religion" and "spirituality". I think that anytime we find in necessary to confine spirituality into a set of rules, it becomes organized religion. Do we need some rules? Yes. And the important ones transcend religious differences. The 10 Commandments, Sermon on the Mount, Golden Rule...good advice, all. It's when any particular religion decides that it is absolutely right and that everyone must fall into step and march with their drummer, well that's when my hackles begin to rise. The fact is, the lovely old lady who stops by my house on a regular basis bearing pamphlets from her church does not know, for a fact, that her perspective is right. She comes with a "one size fits all" approach to spirituality that is shared, unquestioningly, by the people who attend her church. These people accept it without condition. They adhere to it's tenets and doctrines and dogmas and intolerances for the sake of what they believe is righteousness. They believe they are doing Gods work. To illustrate, I think we can agree that the Westboro Baptists are members of a religion, but in their message of hate and intolerance, I fail to see much spirituality. Nevertheless, they are abiding by the accepted rules of their religion, no matter who it hurts. Spirituality, on the other hand, is an individual living, growing, experiential approach to remaining in touch with that which we think of as God, the Great Spirit. There is often no book or accepted tenet to fall back on. There is no dogma to guide us. Sometimes there's not even a group. Spirituality advocates personal responsibility in our relationship with the high power and with the earth and her inhabitants. I think it comes as no surprise to most of the people who have read my work that I am not Christian. My points of view may be a bit different than yours but the more we learn, the more we find those differences are superficial and can be overcome...imagine that...if we can do that, you and I, there is no reason why the entire world cannot. Something to strive for.... So how about this: The consciousness that we think of as God has always existed and will always exist but purely as Spirit. In an effort to expand its own awareness, it exploded and everything you know came to be over billions of years which is, of course, the span of a moment to a being that is timeless; beforehand time never existed anyway. Everything that is or was or could be became infused with that Spirit and came to be through the infinite imagination of the All and Unmanifest Higher Power...eventually to include you and to include me. We exist on this plane to acquire life experiences, both good and bad, because this thing we carry around in our heart of hearts is a splinter of God; immortal and eternal. We fill that spirit and when we die, we return to what we essentially are: our bodies become the earth; our spirits return to the ocean that is the Whole and we become a sort of collective unconscious where we share wisdoms and rest to be born again. It is each splinters job to complete many lifetimes to learn as much as possible. When that happens, a sort of spiritual sentience occurs allowing that individual to become pure spirit with no need to return to the body. That is heaven or nirvana. These spirits can choose to remain as Spirit Guides for others. Yes, I definately believe we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. But balance? No, I think we left that behind a while back. It used to be that we lived in small communities where we depended on each other for survival. Now, well I'm having a conversation with people I've never met via electronics. It used to be that women died in childbirth and 45 was an Elder and we farmed the land and reeped what we sowed. But look at us now. We're so afraid that we've looked into the abyss and found it empty that we are terrified to die. We'll do just about anything to prolong our time here because what if there is nothing else? Or, oh my, what if God really is going to be pissed off when I get there and send me to burn in hell? So we have far more people living on this planet than the earth can support and so very few are making any attempt at all to live in balance and reduce their carbon footprint. I think we forgot to have faith. By that I mean we forgot to accept that death is a sacred part of life and to trust the Higher Power in that wisdom. Now, about that devil... No. I do not believe in Satan. His mythology doesn't belong to a pagan like me. Christian mythology sees a God of absolute (there's that word again!) righteousness and so needed a little dark thrown in there for comparison. Pagan gods don't have that problem, they've got dark of their own. Zeus didn't need to threaten Promethius with damnation: he was perfectly capable of tacking the boy to the mountain himself. Message to ancient Greeks: don't mess with Zeus. They come packaged with their own inherant flaws, because they are ancient personifications of the various aspects of the All and Unmanifest. They helped the Ancients explain, well probably a very similar set of questions as these that we are discussing. Ultimately, we don't know any more than they did. I think that the gods of the old religion became the devils of the new religion. I think the new religion separated the good from the bad, the wheat from the chaffe and decided that anyone who could not come to their understanding of God would be destroyed. Oh, look, we're still doing that. But God doesn't really care what we call her/him/it. That is a petty human difference that will cease to matter the moment we cross into Spirit. God only cares that we maintain the connection. When I am in Ritual and I evoke Aphrodite or Cerridwen, Bastet or Isis, or whatever god or goddess I'm speaking with, I am connecting with that particular facet of what you think of as God . The difference between Isis and Jahovah is an illusion. The difference between you and me is an illusion. They are One. We are One. We always were. We always will be. So onto Jesus. I like Jesus. He's my brother. Do I think he was the son of God? Yes. But then again, I think you are the daughter of God as I am. I think Jesus was an extraordinarily clear minded, evolved Spirit but still just one of us. I think he saw a different Path and beckoned us toward it. I think he tried to tell us how to live in Peace and Love and Light and, threatened by change, tradition killed him. I think he was an amazing man who knew the risk he was taking and let it be because that change was bigger than he was. More important. He was a man who laid down his life for the betterment of mankind. Wow. That is just so much cooler than a demigod who risked nothing, really, at all. I mean, if you know you're going to draw an ace, you're not really risking the pot, are you? We've known others like Jesus, though they don't have religions in their honor, among them King and Kennedy; Ghandi and Lennon. They stood for an ideal bigger than themselves and died with that message on their lips. That is indeed evil but there's really no devil to pin that on. We did that ourselves. Just like all those wars that we blame on God. Silly human race. We don't even live up to our own expectations yet we force those expectations onto others. We fly our banner of righteousness proclaiming superior enlightenment yet forget the most basic of these truths, to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Instead, we do unto others first. So much for enlightenment. And while I concede that, in truth, we just don't know, still, you gotta have faith. Okay, time for that second cup of tea. Still no sunshine outside. I guess I'll hang around for a while. Peace. JL 2@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ "And while I concede that, in truth, we just don't know, still, you gotta have faith.". |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'I think we all, or at least some of us, have gotten too deep into politics and |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'George, |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'-Oren, Big Brother!! |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'I do think what the ladie is saying is; |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'[quote="Madelynn"]So- You want to debate? Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 05:54:12 AM |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'[quote="Madelynn"]So- You want to debate? Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 03:37:56 AM |
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RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Now that's screaming John!- |
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RE: RE: My Position; 'I Don't Know'Quote: Originally Posted by Madelynn Now that's screaming John!- Totally right-on w/ a watermemon kiss! Look, John, has a point; we need to be proactive in our love for the word.. with more then just writing to satisy that 'special place' we all harbor! There are issues, there are real people out here, that wait for a voice to relate too- We are given this voice through our born talents to pen! So I guess the question on the table now is- do we use art for an escape from reality/ or to change reality? -great contribution, Autumn Eyes. -Maddi  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WISDOM! O, WISDOM! I have read Autumn Eyes! I must ruminate over a cup of tea! Last edited by cousinsoren 06-19-2010 at 03:58:36 AM |
If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that is poetry.
Emily Dickinson (1830-1886) American poet.